[SPOILER WARNING]
One of the big surprises in the season two finale of Star Trek: Picard was the appearance of Wesley Crusher, with Will Wheaton returning to his Star Trek: The Next Generation character, now a full-fledged Traveler. It turns out Picard isn’t the only show that wanted to bring back Wesley.
The war for Wesley
Today Paramount released a “Wesley Crusher’s Return” video feature that was also included in The Ready Room. The video features executive producers Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman discussing the fact that after the idea of Wesley returning on Picard was brought up, it started a sort of Crusher conflict with at least one other series:
Akiva Goldsman: And then this really funny thing happened. For the first time so far in the Star Trek Universe, people went to war over a character.
Alex Kurtzman: The one thing that pretty much everybody wanted was to figure out a way to bring Wesley back to their own individual shows. So it was a little bit of a fight to bring him back.
Akiva Goldsman: [mocking conversation with other producer(s)] “We’re using Wesley.” And I was like, “But we want Wesley here, he’s a Next Gen character.” “Well, we’re already using him.” “Well, we can use him too.” “Well, no…” It’s like Wesley Crusher was the belle of the ball.
Alex Kurtzman: But obviously bringing him back to Picard was necessary because he had to return to where it came from.
Wil Wheaton as Wesley Crusher with Isa Briones as Kore in the Picard season two finale
What is the other show?
It’s not stated what other show was “already using” Wesley Crusher, but it wouldn’t be Strange New Worlds, as Goldsman is the showrunner for that new series. Given that Wesley is now firmly established as a time and space spanning Traveler, he could show up on Discovery even in the 32nd-century setting; however, work on the upcoming fifth season hadn’t begun when these producer debates would have been happing.
That leaves the two animated Trek series as the most likely candidates. Just last month Wil Wheaton was talking about wanting to pitch Lower Decks showrunner Mike McMahan on an idea for Wesley, although it’s possible this was a fakeout—but it could also have been a genuine pitch. That leaves Prodigy as the other candidate for the show that was “already using him,” and there is nothing about the setting of that show in time or space that would preclude Wesley as a Traveler from showing up on the USS Protostar.
Regardless, unless his inclusion in Picard negated what was planned for this other show, it looks like we could be seeing more Wesley in the future.
Wheaton happy to come back as Traveler Wesley
The video explains the spark to bring Wesley back began with resolving a timeline issue with the character of Kore (Isa Briones), and it was executive producer Terry Matalas who had the solution:
When we started realizing that there was an opportunity for Kore to go somewhere, that she had to actually go somewhere for the timeline to be restored, [executive producer] Terry [Matalas] said, “What about Wesley?”
In the video, Wheaton expresses his thanks to the Picard writers for cementing the Traveler version of Wesley into canon:
I was so excited when I read the scene and saw the writers for Picard had taken the Wesley who’s existed in my head for all these decades and canonized him.
For his part, today Matalas turned to Twitter to express how thrilled he was to see it happen:
Beyond thrilled to have this Traveler make an appearance… @wilw https://t.co/KEZOWIEO0D
— Terry Matalas (@TerryMatalas) May 9, 2022
And here is the same video on YouTube.
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Um, I still don’t think Wesley Crusher came back. That was Wil Wheaton only, not Wesley.
My words as well. That was not Wesley, it was Will Wheaton 100%. Could of at least shaved the beard and/or costumed up a bit!
AGREED 100%
You “could of” written a sentence that made sense when leveling your criticism.
“could of” is a huge pet peeve of mine. All I see is “I don’t read much”
And it’s almost always people expressing obnoxious negative opinions who use it
His clothes were exactly right for the 2020’s.
Wil Wheaton is Wesley Crusher in this timeline, so… no problem.
That seems like a silly hill to die on, but okay.
What a bizarre stance to take.
No its Wesley. He just looks and sounds like Wil Wheaton, since Wheaton is the actor who plays Wesley. And Wesley is about 30 years older than when we last saw him.
I understand the sentiment if you’re saying it’s yet another portrayal that’s more like the actor than the original character (like Picard and Seven, even Q a little in the finale). But since he was still practically a kid when we last saw him and being a Traveller is a pretty extreme lifestyle change, I’ll give them some leeway. Besides, based on his candid interviews and The Ready Room, if that performance was Wil Wheaton, it was still dialed down to like a 3.
It’s true, he didn’t act anything remotely like Wesley. Not that he had much to work with, but Wesley did not beam and gush like that. Whoopi Goldberg was also playing herself rather than Guinean although was better in her final scene.
Wheaton on Picard played the same character he is playing on The Ready Room.
Wheaton on Picard played “Wil Wheaton from The Big Bang Theory”.
Might have been a deliberate in-joke.
Well, after his abysmal performance on STP, just give him some acting lessons and you’ll be in business.
Also, I love the guy as a super-fan and as an author, but given we all have this perception of him as this sort of annoying never quite grown up teenager, can he at least do his beard so it doesn’t look like he’s a young man who can’t fully grow a legitimate beard? Is that too much to ask? :-)
Appearance is one thing, but the amateurish acting from Wheaton was embarrassing to watch. Painful. You’d never guess that he was an actor with some years under his belt.
No exaggeration, on the day they filmed his scene, they could have pulled an average Joe off the street to perform the part, and it would probably have gone at LEAST as well.
Yeah, I think the whole package is not working. Better to just say, OK he got his live action cameo, and then put him back on the shelf for another decade or two (think Raiders of the Lost Ark DOD warehouse!). At most, let him guest star on a couple eps of the kid/teen-focused animated shows that seem all the rage right now…lol
Well the problem might be for over a decade his only acting experience he has had is playing “Wil Wheaton” on Big Bang theory. So it really doesn’t come as a surprise he is coming off as himself a bit here.
Not SNW, that’s, uh, good for any of the other shows.
He could literally appear on any show now which is crazy. I would be curious to see how Travelers control Watchers like Gary Seven and Tallinn. They are hinting at a bigger mythology. I wonder if they are setting something up for future stories in the shows?
I did love seeing Wesley back but I do agree with others, if he does come back again, hopefully Wheaton’s acting is a little stronger.
So we got Travelers, Q, Guinan’s new superpowers, and of course the Holodeck. What a great tool-bag for lazy writers who can’t give us a real Star Trek science fiction space travel story every week like we are suppose to get from this franchise?
Starting with Berman, and continuing with JJ and Kurtzman, we are getting way too many convenient plot device characters who are like superheroes who can show up whenever they want and do nearly whatever in the hell they want to do.
I hope SNW stays away from all of that.
I wouldn’t hold my breath! ;)
It’s the SAME people who are writing for all these shows. I don’t know why people don’t acknowledge that? They are using the same tool bags because it’s all crazy sci fi and takes place in the same universe, it makes it easier to connect the multiple dots. And dude, TOS used god like super power aliens every season lol. Organians, Guardian of Forever, Metrons, Trelane, Charlie X, freaking Greek god Apollo and on and on. It didn’t start wit Berman. It started with Roddenberry. They have been doing using God like beings with superhero powers since 1966.
Some people got upset when the Guardian of Forever showed up in the 32nd century on Discovery but what did people expect? It’s a sentient machine that was already billions years old with very vague powers. Of course it can now morph into a guy who can hop to planet to planet and now have the ability to teleport people to other parallel universes because nothing before suggested that it can’t. That’s the very definition of lazy toolbag writing, but they are going to take advantage of it as we also saw it with Guinan on Picard (and that I dream of Genie summoning Q bottle she had just sitting at her bar was just astronomically stupid). Again, it’s the SAME people writing all this stuff. And there will be a lot more of it as we go in every new show.
People claim they want a return to TOS stories, well that’s what a lot of them dealt with. If people don’t want Q’s, Organians and Travelers, I get that, but that’s what Star Trek has been doing since 1966. You can’t complain about it now.
“ all crazy sci fi and takes place in the same universe, it makes it easier to connect the multiple dots. And dude, TOS used god like super power aliens every season lol”
Exactly. Those complaining about omnipotent beings being on the new shows really haven’t been paying attention. A lot of Star Trek fans just like to be miserable and angry all the time.
There is a subset of fans who seems to have the delusional idea Star Trek at its core is a hard sci fi show that relies on theoretical science and concepts to tell their stories.
I have NO idea where they got this from, but it certainly wasn’t from Star Trek itself. Star Trek is obviously not a fantasy based concept like Star Wars, but it’s not The Expanse either. And I think for some strange reason some fans want Star Trek to be closer to that show and not the show where Kirk outwits a Greek God or teams up with Abraham Lincoln on a planet for a fight to the death. The episode Wolf in the Field started as a standard murder mystery involving Scotty that concluded with the reveal a powerful non corporal alien entity snatching bodies for centuries was behind it and was also Jack the Ripper. THAT’s the show you’re watching. You’re not going to find anything like that on The Expanse.
Star Trek exists in a very trippy universe where any and every possible thing can happen in it. What other show can have an alien snap his fingers and suddenly everyone is in Sherwood Forest playing Robin Hood? Or go to a planet where anything you imagine can literally exist? That’s why I love it, it’s so ridiculous and absurd lol, but very imaginative absurdity.
The omnipotent and multidimensional alien thing is something Roddenberry was really obsessed with beyond anyone else running Star Trek after him. We all know the story how Q was created, because he was forced to add another hour to Encounter at Farpoint and just on a whim came up with another god like alien to fill the time. The Traveler, in case people forgot, came from his time running TNG too. That just seem to be his go-to box. He was also the guy that wanted Kirk to meet an alien Jesus in a movie. In TAS, there is an episode where the Enterprise run into a planet full of Satans with magical powers in the center of the galaxy. The Star Trek universe is filled with these freaks lol. This is the show you’re watching and TOS did it more than any show since.
Well said. But, you know, the Expanse first couple of seasons basically turned people into superhuman space zombies courtesy of the protomolecule.
True, but that would’ve just been a typical episode in a season of Star Trek. The Expanse really didn’t go into the bizarre very much. But I still haven’t seen the last season so I could be missing something.
Agreed.
You’re making me laugh as I agree. But TOS did “stand for” more science in the SF than anything else running at the time. Prentend-Hard-Science was part of the branding.
I certainly believe that for its time and why people were so enamored with it. And of course I’m not saying Star Trek doesn’t have a strong emphasis on real science. At its backbone, what is great about the show is that it does try to frame everything through a scientific lens. But same time, it only relies on hard science when it suits the story they are telling. Anytime it doesn’t they just throw any ridiculous idea they want but still frame it where at least sounds sciency enough even if nothing about it is remotely feasible which its been doing for over 50 years now.
And of course, a lot of Star Trek have believable and straight forward story telling. And those are the episodes people point to as why the show is considered more lofty in the genre than others. Philosophical debates over if an android should be considered a sentient life or not is something right out of an Issac Asimov story. Stories about an automated planet killing machine from another galaxy is very solid science fiction as well.
But then the next week, it will be about going back in time to past Earth to stop someone from destroying the timeline (yet again). The week after that, the crew are fighting aliens dressed as Nazis. Hell, one episode actually combined both of those things lol. It’s imaginative and (usually) thoughtful in all the best ways we think of Star Trek, but yeah at its core, it’s also really really silly.
I just wish people stopped treating this property as if it’s some kind of documentary of the future or a hard look of how technology and discovering real alien life would one day look like.
I’m trying to imagine some day, when man will be able to harness incredible energies that will hurl us trillions of miles to other worlds in spaceships just to run into ‘aliens’ that look and act completely human, built exact replicas of Earth looking cities and their entire civilization somehow became influenced by either Nazism or bad 1920s Chicago gangster movies. Fun for Star Trek but none of that exactly screams hard science fiction either.
And let’s be honest: the core concept of a “starship” being operated like a 1960s aircraft carrier is absurd. It may have made sense as a storytelling device in the 1960s, and maybe even the 1990s, but in the 21st century there are people with self-driving cars. The idea that something as complex as a starship would have human “navigators” steering the ship is just silly.
I think you are 1/2 right. Star Trek has always from the beginning shown beings that have abilities that go far beyond what humans can do, but I would call them abilities, not powers. Even the Q continuum, to quote Q2, shouldn’t be thinking of as of as omnipotent but far more evolutionary advanced than humans. Yes people like Troi have abilities that humans don’t but Trek is much more likely to explain this in the realm of science than magic.
When explaining Troi’s mental capabilities as it were Trek is more likely to say that Troi has a developed part of her brain that can read transmitted brain waves than they are to say that she can use the force.
Yeah of course you’re right. I wasn’t really implying they just got them like a superhero does and that is the difference obviously. As you said, these are just species that evolved in time. Some probably billions of years. But one thing Star Trek rarely do is explain how aliens got all their crazy abilities and just basically leave it for people to decide. No one in their right mind can explain something like the Q or even Travelers became as powerful as they did, which is OK. It’s all just fiction and many things you have to just accept as true.
But they are all part of the Star Trek universe and what’s crazy is a lot of beings in Star Trek are way more powerful than you would find in any comic book universe. I’m trying to think who in Marvel or DC are as powerful as the Q Continuum? There could be someone but I don’t know who personally. But once again, why Star Trek is fun, because so many of these entities exist in the first place which you DON’T find in a lot of other space operatic genres.
Agreed. But to answer your question from the DC universe / Watchmen we have Dr Manhatten
LOL, you are correct of course.
I think just dealing with this sort of thing for 10 freaking eps of Picard that could have been condensed into a two-part ep just has me down.
All is not lost with my comment though — look who scored some points here, happy to throw a desperately needed bone…LOL
Well we fully agree on Picard. Yeah that didn’t need to be ten episodes and some of the Guinan stuff like the Astral Projection scene in the FBI basement almost took me out of the show lol. We never seen an El Aurian do that before. But yes, as long as there isn’t anything in canon that says they CAN’T astral project themselves, then its all fair game I guess. But just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
But I actually thought how they used Q worked. People complained about him being on the show because he’s always been too magical but this is the most grounded he’s ever been used I thought. I am not super happy how he was used overall but I didn’t mind that direction either. But the show had another HUGE missed opportunity of something as big as a Q dying as something they could’ve really explored on the show and gave the season a real layer it was missing. Instead, it was done in the most lazy way possible with Q spouting off a few lines about it and that was it. But we really needed 3 episodes of Rios stuck in ICE custody. Sigh
“some of the Guinan stuff like the Astral Projection scene in the FBI basement almost took me out of the show lol. We never seen an El Aurian do that before.”
I turned to my wife, and said, “is this Charmed or Star Trek?” Like WTF was that, right? ;-)
Good points on Q. Rio’s romance was boring and so contrived, yet the actors really tried…and the acting overall by the cast (excepting young Guinan who I did not find convincing) saved the season for being a lot worse.
Also, if you are going to have Whoopie appear in the season, then use her in all the Guinan eps…hundreds of year lifespan, no need to have a younger replacement?
Finally, and please, the never ending versions of Dr. Soongs have run their course…JUST STOP ALREADY!
If I start talking about last season of Picard, I’ll get the urge to throw something. So much made no sense. Rios entire arc in season 2 was to just meet a girl and stay behind. He did practically nothing dealing with the mission itself because they gave him nothing to do. Yes the actor really tried. They all did, most were just wasted. Seven and Raffi spent the entire season looking for people basically. The only one that had anything close to an interesting arc was Jurati and the Borg Queen. And II hated how that was resolved too.
And yeah stop with the Soongs. We know Spiner will be back next season but if he’s not playing Data don’t great another Soong. They will probably bring back Alta Soong but I’m starting to think the producers are now looking at it as a long running joke but they are the only ones who thinks it’s funny.
Yeah, we are at the point where a Soong appearance/reference Trek ep viewing drinking game may be viable, and that’s not a good thing.
I’m not loving the fact that Adam Soong and to a minor extent Q are the ones responsible for Khan.
Regarding the whole Whoopi thing, that was probably done because of the View more than anything else. She is VERY busy.
Thank you for mentioning Fake Guinan’s “I Dream of Jeannie” bottle. I thought I was the only one who saw it that way.
I have a question. Leaving aside the issue of who comes from what timeline, if Guinan looked the same in 1893 as she did in the TNG era, why doesn’t she look the same in 2024?
“I have a question. Leaving aside the issue of who comes from what timeline, if Guinan looked the same in 1893 as she did in the TNG era, why doesn’t she look the same in 2024?”
GREAT QUESTION
They should have just had Whoopie play her the entire season. I don’t know if there was a cost issue or perhaps a superficial appearance concern, but I would have much preferred Whoopie and the gravitas that she brings to that part regardless of cost or any other possible concerns. She is Guinan.
Even hopped up on steroids like she said she was, Goldberg would have been a much more engaging scene partner in the 2024 setting. It was hard to see Guinan in Aghayere’s performance. A big part of that is in the writing though, we already have seen how hard it is for even the same actors to bridge drastically altered characterizations. But I kept thinking back to how much TNG’s Rascals got the voice of the de-aged characters right, Guinan in particular.
That bottle was the low point for me in a season of low points. Really, in a show about advanced technology and communication, you’re using mystic bottles to summon an alien presence….that you keep in a bar? Why not just use a crystal ball then, but I guess that might be seen as silly…
As for the look of Guinan, I think the producers was afraid that people couldn’t ignore Whoopi Goldberg had simply aged since she still would’ve looked different from her time in TNG. To be honest I don’t know what they could’ve done that satisfied everyone.
But many people have pointed out that Soong’s, Soji’s and Laris’ 2024 ‘ancestors’ oddly look exactly like their future versions centuries later; but Guinan in 2024 who is suppose to be the same character looks totally different lol. This show man, I swear.
The more I think about that, the more pissed off I get about that moronic scene.
That bottle scene really was epically stupid. The only thing I can possibly do to “head canon” my way out of that is that the Q gave it to the El Aurians as a metaphor and the bottle really isn’t a bottle at all but rather a symbol of a gesture of peace.
Right, because the original series or TNG would never use any silly magic
<eyeroll>
A lot of Star Trek comes off as magical because how advanced some of the tech or species are. I think we made that pretty clear. But no, I don’t remember anyone getting in touch with someone from a bottle either lol. That comes off silly to me, sorry. But If you can pinpoint me to that episode, I will stand corrected.
Honestly some canon issues just have to give way to real world issues. Whoopi Goldberg was probably just too busy to give that mush time to the show.
because whoopi doesn’t look the same? I swear, some people just love to bitch
There are a lot of issues I have with modern Trek but God like beings is not one of them. It’s silly to expect that all aliens we encounter “out there” will have human like limitations and be on Star ships.
Also I know we are only one EP in for SNW but that ep was great and unlike PIC, reviewers have seen 1/2 the season of SNW already and they are raving so far so even if these are the same writers I am hopeful the 3rd time is the charm for live action Tv Trek.
I don’t either of course. I really love a lot of those stories and Q is one of my favorite characters of all time. Star Trek has always been based more on a ‘what if’ scenario and it’s more about the possibilities than actual reality. That’s what some fans either don’t get or just don’t acknowledge when they desperately try to treat the show as a hard Physics lesson instead of the utterly fantastical and mystical universe it exists in. And maybe we do live in that type of universe in real life too. If you truly believe a God exist, which is as fantastical and mystic as you can get, then nothing stops the other supreme beings we see on Star Trek from existing either. They just may not exist in our own galaxy but they too can be out there somewhere.
I’m repeating myself a lot, but it’s why I love Star Trek. It’s probably the greatest imaginative science fiction property in history. And for me the trippier these stories and aliens get the better Star Trek it is! I hope we run into species like the Q as long as Star Trek continue existing.
As for SNW, I’m hopeful about it and I really did like the first episode. Hopefully after Discovery and Picard this will be a show that is more in their wheelhouse and doesn’t leave me frustrated every season like I have felt for the past six with the other two.
I think that is one things DIS S4 got right. Making the aliens of the season so fantastical.
I think the Aegis ought to either have been left mysterious, or explored more fully. Merely saying that the Aegis were really Travellers and leaving it at that was a bit of a cop-out.
Also, he should have shaved the beard. It’s Wheaton’s trademark as a talk show host/blogger, but it does not fit with his *character*.
I agree with you, there could’ve been more for sure. Yeah, it was basically rushed and only half thought out…but you have watched the season as a whole? That’s sort of its M.O. ;)
And I would LIKE to think it’s just the start of the story and they two species relationship will have a bigger arc going forward. Now that they have reintroduced both the Travelers and the Aegis maybe we will see them more in SNW or even Discovery.
Or it will probably be dropped and forgotten kind of like how the Synths and XBs were after season one. This one is probably the right answer unfortunately.
Maybe they hoped this would have been a “growing the beard” moment 2.0 LOL
For a while I was thinking that the producers might be building up to an epic confrontation between the supernatural powered beings of the Trek universe. If they get the metrons and the organians involved then we’ll see.
I just commented this above. But for over a decade his only acting experience he has had is playing “Wil Wheaton” on Big Bang theory. So it really doesn’t come as a surprise he is coming off as himself a bit here.
Goldsman’s comments (“What about Wesley?”) and that they needed Kore to “go somewhere” accurately depict the problem with the finale, and you could say the second season as a whole. A feeling of being rushed, and out of the blue, sometimes unnecessary plot twists. It would’ve been great if they would’ve alluded to Wesley at any other point in the season, or re-introduced him in Kore’s story sooner. It felt like undeserved moment of awkward fan service. Glad Wheaton is still getting work in the universe, but his cameo was a lowlight of the season for me.
Yeah, that ‘what-about-ism’ is becoming a sticking point for me. Not just in Star Trek but in popular culture in general. So many things we watch now contain these setups for more and more content. It’s almost like the shows themselves are becoming their wiki sites. Follow this link to see more!
But I don’t always want to see more. Sometimes a self-contained story is preferable.
Did anyone really want Wesley to come back? Besides a little more information about the Traveler and to clarify whether the Nemsis scene was valid or not (which we’ve now got), is there anything else for him to do? I don’t blame Will for taking a job but the writers need to show some restraint.
Can we please just focus on new characters? Apart from Discovery still limping along, all of the current projects are nostalgia bait. And even Discovery started that way.
I know new characters are a bigger risk but they literally just threw away a mostly well received crew for no reason in Picard. Soon every actor in Trek will either be old or playing a younger version of an older actor’s character. The franchise cannot continue that way.
I don’t disagree that much, but nostalgia bait works and why people were so excited for shows like Picard and SNW in the first place. Those have been the biggest hyped shows thus far. Paramount sees that and the idea is probably to just do more like those.
I agree fully though I would love the next show to be with completely new characters in a post-Picard show. I DON’T have a problem with seeing old characters at all of course but now that we have three shows staring legacy characters (Picard, Janeway and Pike), it would be nice to have a show with totally new characters again.
I would like whatever show replacing Picard to be something new in the 25th century. Most of us thought the Picard cast was being prepped to spin off for a possible Stargazer show and couldn’t be more wrong lol. I guess it could still happen if Seven is now a Starfleet officer, but that wouldn’t exactly be a new character of course. And I have a feeling if there is a spin off show from Picard it probably will be with another TNG character as well. Now that Star Trek is behind a pay wall, they probably feel this will entice more casual fans to watch.
I agree, I do like having old characters sprinkled into new shows here and there and it’s a nice way to see characters from different shows interact. Use old characters as seasoning, not the main course. TNG did it right with Spock, McCoy, and Scotty.
Is SNW being hyped because it is nostalgia bait? Or because it’s a promise of a return to an episodic show? Neither Enterprise not Discovery worked well as prequels and I don’t think anyone was really asking for another one.
And I still can’t believe they threw a Stargazer spinoff away. WTF were they thinking. Unless they are hoping to do a Gary Seven/Khan/Adam Soong show that nobody wants, I have no idea what possessed them.
With SNW, it’s both but I think it’s clearly more nostalgia bait than anyting. We didn’t even know SNW would be episodic until over a year after it was announced. People really just wanted to see Pike and Spock again on the original Enterprise.
And I can’t act like I’m immune to seeing legacy characters back. Out of all the new shows, the two I was most interested in was Picard and SNW by far. Picard was a little different though. I was excited that Patrick Stewart was coming back, but frankly I was more excited we were finally getting a post-Nemesis show. But having Picard again made it feel extra special. I didn’t care that much about Prodigy because it sounded like something more for kids until the day it was announced Janeway would be on it and as a pivotal character. I became excited for the show from that point on.
So these things work lol. And they work very well. They make a lot more headlines obviously. But for fans like us, we’re excited for any thing as long as the premise itself is interesting enough. But that doesn’t mean everyone will care either and we are living in a competitive franchise streaming war. Look at Star Wars, it too seems to think fans will only care more if they bring Luke, Boba Fett, Ashoka and etc to all the new shows. The Mandalorian started out as it’s own thing with original characters. But by the second season it was now a back door to bring in every character from the OT and prequels it could. I;m expecting Yoda to show up in third season lol.
As for Star Trek, we could still get a Stargazer show of some kind. I’m much less hopeful now for it, but it doesn’t stop them from filling it with new characters and Seven as a holdover IF enough people call for it loud enough.
And they know fans really just want another Starship based show in the 25th century now that Picard is winding down. So hopefully we’ll get something in that direction at least.
I was excited about Picard because of Picard of course but what I wanted to show in canon that the Prime universe continued after the events of Star Trek 2009. I know TPTB said it did but there was nothing that said they couldn’t change their minds still Picard happened.
One of the big reasons I wanted a post Nemesis show was also due to the events after Romulus was destroyed. I remember watching the 2009 movie and I became much more excited about going back to the Prime Universe and the state the Alpha Quadrant would be in after that.
And when it was revealed Picard was coming back, that was actually the first thing I was curious about, would they include Romulus as part of the show, which of course they did. I still had some issues with how it was handled (mostly being in the back drop and the Mars story line really taking precedent) but I was just happy to see it included. And they can always focus on it more in the future. They don’t really need to but with so much Trek coming I suspect they will at some point again.
Yeah same here. I’m happy it was addressed but I’m sad that the entirety of Starfleet seemed to go to the dark side after that
I think it would have been cool if Seven had crossed paths briefly with Not-Ducane (the FBI guy) and done like a double-take when she sees him (even though he’s older).
LOL, that would’ve been a funny easter egg.
But what would’ve been even better? If Seven crossed paths with the actual Ducane! So many many missed opportunities.I just don’t get how badly this season was designed, especially by show runners who act like big fanboys themselves.
I think it would have been cool if they somehow got David Duchovney for the role LOL. Maybe Robert Patrick.
Seven isn’t just a Starfleet officer now, IIRC she is a Captain. She could totally be the next Captain of the Stargazer and lead her own Star Trek: Seven show. But I would prefer it if Raffi wasn’t there. I have no issues with LGBTQ but I just don’t like that character. She can come back as a frequent guest star to keep the relationship.
The Seven thing is still confusing to me though. We’ll see what they do with it next season but I have a hard time believing Picard giving her a field commission means she is now Captaining a ship. Many think it’s more silly than actual Travelers lol. But this is part of the same brain trust who made Kirk a Captain in the KU, so you can’t be shocked by anything they do. But I won’t be complaining about it at all (unlike Kirk). It would be great if she was in charge of the Stargazer next season!
As for Raffi, she was originally one of my favorite characters when she was introduced but then soured for me by the end of the first season. I originally loved she was sassy and not a perfect person. But then she got more annoying and overbearing as it went on. I don’t mind she will be there next season (someone from the old cast has to be ;)) but I don’t think I would’ve missed her if she was gone too. Seven and Rios were the only two characters I truly loved on the show and hey least half of them are coming back lol.
I tend to think of it like this. Picard has done something similar like this before with Wesley. Wesley still needed to go to the academy though because even tho he was a genius he was never trained. Seven doesnt have that issue. She has the assimilated knowledge of SF captains as we learned from VOY.
I get that, but didn’t you just proclaim here last week that you aren’t going to watch any more eps from the Kurtzman team? If so, why would it matter to you what they do with the characters since you will not be watching any of the series’ regardless? No worries, but you certainly sounded like you were just moving on from all this anyway?
I said I didn’t feel like watching anymore because I was annoyed at how they ended Picard. I did say in one comment that I wasn’t saying it to be dramatic and that I might very well change my mind if the new shows look appealing or if I’m able to better seperate them in my mind.
I do want to watch new Star Trek but as things go so far, I’ve reached a point where I’m tired of not enjoying it. I do think I would enjoy a new show more if they focused on new characters in a post Nemsis setting, as well as fixing the obvious things like plot issues.
So to summarize, it matters to me because I want to enjoy new Star Trek. If they keep making poor choices, I have to accept new Trek is not for me, which I don’t really want to do.
OK, thanks.
If you look back just a few weeks, Wheaton was having to field quite a few “But what about Wesley?!” questions from people who were annoyed he wasn’t part of the season 3 TNG reunion.
Wesley makes sense if you are bringing everyone else back. I’m sure people would react the same way if someone else was seemingly left out. However, I don’t think many people were calling for a solo Wesley appearance before that and certainly not multiple appearances.
That’s a pretty specific little needle you’re threading.
Not really.
I found your comment about “nostalgia bait,” interesting. There is a whole broadcasting industry built around nostalgia. MeTV, Cozi TV, Laff TV just to name a few.
In some markets,the Andy Griffith Show, wins in its time slot,
Which raises another question(s)?
How do we recreate that show? Should we? Should we film it in 4X3 aspect ratio, in black and white? Should Aunt Bea be in a same sex relationship, helping raise Opie?
I know I’m being a bit silly, using the AG show as an example, but these are the questions Trek has to answer, when reimagining a show.
What aspects do we honor and respect?
What aspects do we bend or ignore? Will AG “purists” watch it?
You’re right that nostalgia does sell but it’s not sustainable long term. New actors playing known characters are seldom more popular than the original (unless it’s a minor character like Pike), plus the more they focus on a character, the messier respecting canon becomes. There’s also the issue of characters being written very differently than before, such as we have recently seen with Seven and Picard, and Kirk in the JJ verse.
Saying that, I do think it’s fine to use a restrained amount of nostalgia bait to encourage people to watch the new shows. Plus it’s fun to see characters from different shows interact with each other. But the franchise is going to burn itself out very quickly if they continue this way. The TNG crew looked tired in Nemesis and that was 20 years ago. In Picard, PatStew seemed hoarse in some scenes and looked like he needed a stunt double to climb some stairs (understandable considering his age). Even Wesley is now almost 50.
I don’t know about AG specifically, but comparing with TOS, obviously some things need to be continually updated to keep the show looking futuristic, but without losing the classic Star Trek look. An example of this would be a holographic LCARS screen.
Pike is easy to recast because even though he has been played by 2 other actors already he has only ever been in 2 episodes of Trek.
I was never a Wesley Crusher fan, but that was because it was rare that the writers really knew what to do with him. Despite that, I was delighted to see Wesley as a Traveler in Picard, and would also be happy to see him pop up in other series. This even opens the door for a multi-show crossover plot, with the different crews in their different times and places having to play some role in setting something right.
But here’s an even bigger idea. Have Traveler Wesley show up in other Paramount/CBS shows. This would never happen (who would care except Star Trek fans), but I love the idea of Wesley traveling around interacting with entirely different shows to pull pieces together to solve some sort of galaxy-threatening problem.
an MCU level connected plot involving multiple series at once, culminating in a two hour epic would be inspired. Alas….probably beyond their will to do such a thing.
“This even opens the door for a multi-show crossover plot, with the different crews in their different times and places having to play some role in setting something right.”
i hope it wouldn’t be one of those things where parts of the story are in one series and parts are in another series that maybe you don’t watch. They did that with “Sleepy Hollow” and that David Boreanaz show, which apparently take place in the same universe (and maybe Tommy Westphal is there too). I didn’t watch the Boreanaz show, so there were parts of “Sleepy Hollow” that didn’t make any sense to me. I can understand why network shows might do that, to increase viewership for the other show and try to sell more products through its commercials, but I don’t see why they’d need to do it on a streaming platform. If you’re signed up for Paramount+ you have access to all the Star Trek shows, so what do the “network” execs care if you’re not watching one or more of the shows? I’m watching only “Picard” and “Strange New Worlds.”
I would like to see Wesley as a bit like the Observer from Fringe (although hopefully without the eventual invasion from the future). He could just pop up in the background of the various Trek shows.
I would hate that idea. Hate it. Wesley is one of the least liked characters in Trek history. Why would anyone want him showing up in various Trek shows?
The supervisor Garry Seven back in TOS, was supposed to lead into a spin off show, which never came. Linking the travellers and supervisors brings the whole background story back into the throw.
I’d genuinely like to see another attempt at a Gary Seven like character.
A made for streaming movie, with Wesley, including perhaps other established characters (perhaps some of those dropped from Picard or recurring characters from older series), could be fun and profitable in it’s own right while introducing the Watchers/supervisors.
So Wesley can be in Halo and Yellowstone then? An Halo appearance might be doable but I really can’t see how it’ll work in Yellowstone unless Taylor Sheridan plans to make a Yellowstone spin-off set in space.
I like it a lot.
I’m tired of fans whinging about what was cut from Nemesis.
Why should a trivial deleted scene from a film that nearly killed the franchise, and was directed by someone who didn’t understand Trek at all, have any relevance?
In Treklit, Wesley remained a traveler and it worked very, very well. The Relaunch universe isn’t Prime Universe canon now, but the idea of Wesley connecting Trek continuity across the multiverse is excellent.
If anything, I’m grateful for what was cut from Nemesis. The deleted scenes aren’t any better than what we got, and the fates of Wesley, Worf and Crusher that John Logan wrote in them are unimaginative at best and totally contradict the well-considered trajectories set up for them at worst.
Oh no, please don’t turn Trek into the Arrowverse lol
Love the guy and the role, but that beard is just not working, dude.
SO enjoyed Wesley’s return to the ST screen,, and cementing his place in the lore as a Traveller. Watched the ep at midnight when it dropped, almost woke the kids with my jumping around in delight. Kudos Wil, on both Wesleys and your own personal arcs. You have persevered through some tough times in each, and are all the better for the journey!
Yeah, Wes’s return was the best thing about the episode.
I was super excited to see him too but by that point in the episode, I was kind of ready for it to end. So to get a surprise like that was nice IMO; especially since he was talking up how he wasn’t going to be in season 3 (and he could still be lying about that) so it was kind of a nice misdirect.
Also people are complaining he just looked (and sounded) too much like Wil Wheaton. That’s true but I think wearing regular street clothes was really the bigger mistake. They should’ve put him in a costume like a Traveler would wear. And no he didn’t have to actually meet her on a random street either. He could’ve appeared anywhere (although now thinking about it since they beamed out on a public street in daylight, what difference would wearing a futuristic costume have made? So another reason to do it). But the scene feels weak because it does feel like it’s Wheaton sounding and acting like Wheaton. Make it a little more interesting and make it clear the guy is coming from space to meet her and not from his house.
I’d like to add a nitpick – he shouldn’t have beamed out, they should have reused that Venetian blind visual effect of how the Travelers phased out of time and space.
Yep another odd decision. Why not have the same effects of the original? I liked that the Watcher had something more unique as well and should’ve did something different for that scene too if they didn’t want to do the original effect. Not a huge deal but it felt odd to me too like they were just beaming to another ship or something.
100% correct.
I got a solution to their squabbles…use his Traveler character in with Prodigy and/or Lower Decks. Get him to appear in an episode in which a frequent character screws up with the string theories and the Traveler (Wesley) hopefully accompanied by Kore, put the tangled cords of space-time back to their rightful state.
Believe they may already have. Because Picard show runner wanted him, and another ST show runner said you can’t have him are already using him.
In addition, why not feature him every once in a while in Section 31, but the story has to be plausible and valid enough to require his appearance.
If they tied the Section 31 show with the Temporal Cold War, they could do all kind of crazy things with a Traveler as well.
It would be fun.
The final books in the Relaunch Trek Litverse had Wesley trying to work with and save the Guardian of Forever at certain points.
There’s a lot of potential in the multiverse, Temporal Wars, the Watchers as well as the Guardian and Wesley the Traveler to work with.
Yeah that would be fun for sure!
And that’s the thing, these new shows are reintroduing more mystical characters and concepts in Trek; some we haven’t seen since TOS! We gotten Q, GOF, the Temporal Wars, Watchers and now Travelers mentioned or shown in very recent seasons. They also referenced the Kelvin universe in season 3 of Discovery. But does any of it MEAN anything? Do you think they are hinting at a bigger mythology in the future or is it all just a lot of references or one time story points for the fans to just feel like it’s all connected?
If it is something bigger then maybe this is all being set up for the Section 31 show and are dabbling more than just political and espionage stories. Maybe we will see time travel/multiverse plots and using the GOF and other entities fighting the TCW or something. I’m not really excited about this show but something like that would change that for sure!
They keep saying they want every show to feel different or unique, this would definitely fit that description. And it would maybe get more fans onboard who hate the concept of Section 31 and can see them more than just the evil black ops group.
I enjoyed it because I am a fan but honestly the whole season could have been done better with 2 hours.
2 might be too short. I’d say more like 4.
ugh
I would have thought it was the other way around – fighting to keep him off their show.
Nope. He’s been a sought after actor for over 35 years (Stand By Me).
I loved getting to see him, and hope to see him again. If not onscreen, then I’ll take comics/novels about the adventures of the Wes and Kore.
Wow, writers and producers really on a different planet to fans, nice to have him back but my god was that forced into the episode “just because we can”, and wasn’t Wesley…it was Will!
Seemed like Wesley enough to me, it’s been 30 damn years. The lines about the Tapestry of the universe just felt very Wesley to me, that even as a Traveller he still has some awe about it.
I think Wheaton hit it out of the park and don’t understand all the weird complaints on this board. Elsewhere, people seem to have loved him in the role. I say, keep bringing him back!
I have a LOT of criticisms for S2 (and S1) of Picard, but in both instances I think the entire cast gave it their best in each scene, trying to elevate the haphazard scripting as best they could. I also thought Wheaton was absolutely fine, and it was a nice little surprise cameo moment, which one must assume is going to be followed up on some way, and not dropped between seasons like so much else. People are saying he was more like Wheaton than Wesley, but as we haven’t seen Wesley properly in decades, why wouldn’t he act more like Wheaton? :)
Could be setting up a 50 year old promise to have a US based Who style knock-off w/ Gary Seven.
Dr. Whil-Wheaton show could have him partnering w/ the Temporal Investigations or…ugh…I don’t even want to type it, but: Section 31. X-Files meets Who w/ Wes at the center.
All I can say about Wil Wheaton’s return is “About time!” (no pun intended)
In the early days of TNG, Wil’s character suffered from lazy writing. Whenever the Enterprise got into some sort of trouble, it was usually the Chief Engineer du jour for the Epic Fail, then swoop in kid Wesley for the win! The fans were sick of it and it made them dislike Wesley. And that made even Wil Wheaton dislike Wesley! Ultimately it led to him leaving the show, with the occasional guest return. “The Game” was good use of Wesley-as-savior, with most of the crew being taken over, and Wesley and episode GF, managing to just stay ahead of them, and getting Data back online for the save. It was ultimately a team effort, with even Wesley in peril at the end, with no magic trick up his sleeve. But that was too, too late. The damage was already done.
This brings back Wesley as a full-fledged Traveler, and perhaps even sets up further reappearances, or maybe even another Trek-related series at some point. And at long last, fans had actually been clamoring for Wheaton to return on PICARD, even upset for him, that he wasn’t announced for season 3 like the rest of the TNG cast.
What made them dislike Will even worse was ‘Shut up Wesley’. He’s still having to overcome that. I say: ‘Shut up haters’.
Welcome back Wesley. Now let’s see Sybok and Spock: The Wonder Years.
I also got a kick out of the Wesley cameo, but because I see him weekly on the Ready Room he should have changed up his appearance. It was jarring to see Wil approach Kore instead of Wesley. As others have said losing the beard would have been an easy solution.
I’m appreciating everyone’s differing perspectives on Picard S2. Not arguing or bickering, just varying points of view. I agree with those who point out the weak writing. It would serve Paramount well to hire a respectable script consultant to go over the writing before production begins, maybe Ronald Moore? Some of the writers in this chat would also make for excellent feedback, although we know the stuffed shirts putting these shows together would never have it.
Other random thoughts: I agree with whoever said Whoopi should have played Guinan in 2024. She knows the character better than anyone. The younger version just didn’t work for me and pulled me out of the narrative.
Too much time spent with Rios in ICE custody. Less ICE and a little more Rene Picard would have been appreciated.
I too had my hopes set on a Stargazer show. Despite the writing issues I had come to care about this new cast developed over two seasons. We really do need a new show set in the 25th century. Rios’ personality and swagger were pretty much wasted this season. Rios, Raffi, Seven and Elnor would have made a good foundation for a crew.
I don’t mind characters from TNG, DS9 or Voyager showing up on a new crew as long as they aren’t shoehorned in. No more stunt casting for cameos.
Please, NO MORE SOONGS! Probably wishful thinking because Brent is coming back yet again next season and he’s not playing Data.
For what it’s worth, most of the cast gave it their all. And I thought the conclusion was decent. Q and Picard’s final moments were well done.
I think Ron Moore is absolutely done with Trek which in a way is a good thing because thats why we got BSG. His final years in Trek seemed like they were torture for him which is in part why we got Star Trek Generations.
Not just weak writing, but weak Direction when Jon Frakes is unavailable. It would have been simple for the Director, when looking at ‘dailys’ to say, “that seems off, let’s have Will shave and put on a costume and walk thru the portal, instead of beaming up’.
I just have so enjoyed how fussed the Wes-haters have been about this. LOL
Do people ever get tired of whining about everything? I wonder ….
Bit “Doctor Who” innit?
Frankly, Wil returning a Wesley is as cool as Tom Baker returning as “The Curator” in the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary special.
Fought over? You mean, like, to the death?
with the Amok Time music playing in the background? :))
For the people who say that Wil Wheaton seemed a bit too much like Wil Wheaton and not enough like Wesley Crusher… let me posit that you are perhaps right, but that it actually makes a lot of sense in the context of Star Trek.
Wil Wheaton has talked a lot about the fact that he was abused and taken advantage of as a child and teenger — he was *profoundly* unhappy in real life. This bled over into his portrayal of Wesley Crusher, who was also quite sullen a lot of the time. Wheaton has described himself as a young man who grew up without a father, and that his two major characters (Gordie in Stand By Me as well as Wesley) happened to also be young men who grew up without a father.
Wil and Wesley have always been very closely linked.
Nowadays Wil writes about how he has escaped a destiny he didn’t want (being trapped as an actor) and developed into a happy and well-adjusted adult who loves his life and his job. Think about it — Wesley has also escaped a destiny he didn’t want (being trapped in Starfleet) and developed into a happy and well-adjusted adult who loves his life and his job. In other words, Wesley — like Wil — is truly happy and free as a Traveler in a way he never got to be as a regular human.
So the portrayal of a smily, happy Wesley (who resembles a smily, happy Wil) makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. He’s living his best life, just like Wil is living his. Honestly, I think it’s perfect. I totally buy that this is what Wesley looks like after he sheds all his baggage and is free to just be the ideal version of himself.
That is a fair point, Gilbetron. Nicely said.
Thanks for saying this Gilberton.
It needed to be in this thread and it’s well put.
Fair point. Also I would add (as I have above) that Wil has spent over a decade now literally playing the character of Wil Wheaton on the Big Bang Theory so these days it is more natural for him that ever before to play the role of himself.
Psychologically, right on point! I was thinking along similar lines,but you nailed it.
Without knowing what they do with Worf in season 3, it’s fascinating to me how much leeway we have just because Nemesis was too long and had a number of deleted scenes that would have spelled out the next steps for so many characters. Because their scenes were deleted, Wesley was free to be a Traveler again, Worf could have remained an ambassador and Beverly might not have gone back to Starfleet medical.
I will say I wish they’d found a little time for Beverly to miss her son. She rarely talked about him in seasons 5-7, and never in the movies. Then he becomes a Time Lord and now refers to his identity as Wesley Crusher as a past life? That’s gotta be hard on his mother. Obviously he’s seen her since he’s visible at Riker and Troi’s wedding, but imagine random visits from your son and he’s becoming less and less like the child you raised. It’s rather bittersweet and TNG really never did enough with this relationship.
And then from Wesley’s perspective, I have to wonder if he ever went back in time to meet his dad. I sense not many here are interested in this at all, but I for one never hated Wesley, and his little storyline in “Family” where he got the only message his father ever made for him was quite touching.
That’s a good point. And a great plot point. Do you go back in time to meet your father because you love and miss him so much. Or do you listen to the lessons you learn from your adoptive father Picard and not interfere with the timeline?
So basically Wesley is now the Uatu the watcher of the Trek universe and that means technically he can appear anywhere at anytime.
This is all about Wheaton. He would do anything to stay in front of any camera. The majority of fans aren’t interested in seeing him return to Trek. ” Shut up Wheaton”
I’m always bemused when people speak with such authority on the behalf of the majority of fans.
Wow, that just nasty.
Sounds like you can’t get over your own resentment about how the TNG writers wrote him as an unappealing child prodigy.
Especially mean-spirited as Wheaton was a child actor who pulled out of the business for an extensive period of time as an early adult and who has been quite forthcoming about his mental health struggles.
15 years ago he was better known as a very successful blogger than as an actor entertainer.
Sincerely, making these kinds of assertions in the absence of evidence are toxic.
Sheldon Cooper is freaking out right now.
If you look carefully in the background of the scene where Wesley meets Kore you can see security pinning him down.
For a very long time I struggled to understand how Wil felt when he would describe the early days of TNG and the toxic fandom that lingered over the decades. Then I read this thread and I suddenly understand how his time in Trek was both a gift (for the fan in him) and a curse (as someone with anxiety and depression issues). Holy cow am I disappointed in fans. A character we haven’t seen or heard from appeared on screen in a scene that basically canonized the actor’s head canon for the character. Not enjoying how it was worked into the story is one thing. But the negativity on this thread is just gross. Wil Wheaton is a human being, and while I have no idea if he reads this site, I sincerely hope he doest’t after seeing these comments.
Thanks for saying this. I agree that it’s awful.
I LOVE Wil Wheaton, as a host, as an author, and as a survivor.
His acting, in the season finale?
His excitement got the better of him, and his performance, suffered for it.
I wish the Director had have gave him more rehearsal time and what a crap location for shooting the scene. The Director Of Photography had zero room to work with and his shot options were few. It showed up in the editing of that part of the episode. Wil Wheaton deserved more than two pages of dialog, appearing as, well, Wil Wheaton, and not a Traveler.
I’m actually more thrilled that they made Wesley Crusher as a reference to TOS as well as the obvious TNG reference.
Give the guy a break. STNG basically shit canned Wil Wheaton after the show was off the air. I personally enjoyed seeing him in Picard. For those smucks that are hating on his performance, f#%k off.
The whole “Producers Fought Over Which New Shows Get To Bring Back Wesley Crusher” is a lie. They were not fighting over that Character, not in the least. The were probably deciding which show actually wants him. Lets be honest, Wil’s performance was basically the same as he acts on “The Ready Room” While his character was once part of TNG, he’s basically been forgotten and in some ways that’s a good thing. In other ways it’s sad. The character was only there to appease Gene Roddenberry’s ego. Which from what I’ve read over the years got bigger and bigger as the years went on.
it. was. a. joke!
If anybody deserved a guest spot on Star Trek Picard, it’s Will. He is one of its biggest fans. He has literally lived the life. I hope they have more of him.
My, and probably Wesley’s response: ‘Shut up, haters!’